Sunday, October 8, 2017

I'M QUITE UNCOMFORTABLE

at the hounding of a dead man who cannot answer back.   I refer to the statement by the Wilshire Police last week that former UK Prime Minister, Sir Edward Heath, should have been interviewed regarding the alleged rape of an 11 year old boy in 1961 ... an allegation that was investigated by the Metropolitan Police in 2015 and no action taken.   The Wilshire Police said Sir Edward should have been interviewed over this but that no inference of guilt should be taken from this statement. 

 FFS ... he died in 2005 ... ten years before the matter was investigated.

This all stems from an article in the Daily Mirror, a 'high class' tabloid (choke) which cited letters from a convicted child sex abuser (sent from prison) alleging that more than 50 years before he had been picked up and driven to Sir Edward's home and raped.    It was the most serious of the charges that led the Wiltshire Police in 2015 to launch Operation Conifer to look into allegations of historic child sex abuse.

 In their report the Wiltshire Police declined to say whether it had any evidence to support the allegations other than the allegations themselves.   They did however say they had evidence which undermined the accounts of people who accused Sir Edward and stressed in their report that no-one should conclude that the former Prime Minister was a child abuser.

Look, I have no way of knowing the truth of the matter.   But to investigate a man ten years after his death when he cannot answer back is simply political correctness beyond the pail ... and yes, he was unmarried ... and so was James Buchanan, 15th President of the United States; Julia Gillard, 27th Prime Minister of Oz; Elizabeth the First; MacKenzie King and RB Bennett, both Prime Ministers of Canada; Francois Hollande, 24th president of France and Dame Eugenia Charles, Prime Minister of Dominica 1980-95 ... so what.


 

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

The other school of thought is that the Chief Constable of Wiltshire, Mr Veale, has given a textbook demonstration of how the police should be free from political interference and able to investigate crimes without fear or favour.

So many investigations of child abuse have been shut down or never started due to political pressure. The Rochdale grooming gang for instance were reported as long ago as 2004 but the Chief Constable decided not investigate the matter as it might destroy "social cohesion".....bad stupid decision. The Heath investigation moved away from the main investigation when the police discovered that there was more to the story.

It's what the police are supposed to do....investigate crime. The fact that someone is dead should make no difference.

Lord Egbut

The Veteran said...

Egbut ... being dead does make a difference. Money, time, resources are spent in an exercise for which there can be no conclusion. The accusers are left hanging. Their accusations cannot be tested in the courts. They can never achieve closure.

Likewise the reputation of the accused remains forever under a cloud and, especially in the highly charged atmosphere that accompanies accusations of child abuse, the 'no smoke without fire' rule kicks in.

So, at the end of this what has been achieved? Precisely zip, zero, nothing.

Andrei said...

It is the nature of the beast, Veteran, that historical figures have their lives opened up to public scrutiny and possibly distorted views emerge

What do you think Queen Victoria would make of the series running on TV ONE Sunday nights where completely ahistorical plot lines are used to sex up the drama

Gay historians have claimed many historical figures to be part of their fraternity even though the very concept of being "gay" is an entirely modern construction.

You yourself suggested Alexander the Great was "gay" on a post not so long ago despite his historical association with a Persian Princess called Roxana who bore him a son

English prep and public schools of the past were hotbeds of sexual perversion and much but not all of this has been covered over because they are also the source of the British ruling classes.

Lord Melbourne after whom the city is named took in poor girls as his wards and according to contemporary sources got his rocks off by thrashing them - do we believe this or was it a vicious slander?

The Veteran said...

Andrei ... it is entirely legitimate for people to debate the lives of various historical personages. What is not legitimate is for the Police to spend money, time and resources on an investigation that, by its very nature, can lead nowhere.

It is a tenet of our judicial system that the accused has the right to face his accuser in court. A dead person can't exercise that right.

Andrei said...

Veteran when it comes to Catholic Clergy many millions have been spent on investigations by their "very nature can lead nowhere"

And that includes in this country - where there have been at least two successful prosecutions against people who have laid false claims against clergy

Human nature changes very little through the ages - the Satanic abuse trials of the 1980s and 1990s look a great deal like the Witchcraft trials of the early 17th century

We are on a hunt for pedophilia in our time and looking under all sorts of rocks to find it, the rewards for accusers can be great and their allegations maybe true - then again they may be false c'ést la vie

The Veteran said...

Andrei ... have a look at this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_by_country and you will see that not all cases lead to nowhere. So there is progress but progress is small and fraught with 'difficulties'.

But this has nothing to do with my post. Those found guilty and sentenced were living. Due process was followed. You can't do that with the dead.

Andrei said...

"But this has nothing to do with my post"

It has everything to do with it - in New Zealand dead clergy have been accused and investigated as has happened elsewhere.

In one New Zealand case two elderly Catholic brothers were deemed too senile to be put on trial for example.

Your prejudices lead you to require different standards and to even ignore cases in institutions you might admire from those which you hold in distrust and disdain

Whether you like it or not the accusations have been publicly made and how you receive them depends upon your politics I suppose

There is nothing new in this - public figures of the past were accused of things, sometimes truthfully, sometimes by their enemies and these have become part of the narrative surrounding that person - we are stuck with that.

Andrei said...

Are you comfortable with this Veteran?

Biggest online child porn site in the world run by Australian Police

Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Just imagine if Ted heath had been a Labour PM. There would have been not one word.

Andrei, you are beyond help.

The Veteran said...

Andrei ... You misconstrue my position, hopefully not deliberately. Fact ... I am against all forms of abuse and especially child abuse. Fact ... My post was not coloured by my politics. I would have taken the same position no matter what the persons politics were. My essential point was that the dead cannot answer back.

You refer to two clerics who did not go to trial because they were deemed as senile. That is another tenet of our judicial system ... any accused must be able to understand the charges they are facing. Do I take it you think otherwise?

Cardinal Pell is alive and fit to stand trial. Due process will ensue as it should.

But my post is all about the dead or don't you understand that?

Andrei said...

"But my post is all about the dead or don't you understand that?"

Yes I do understand that and its extension to the near dead who are no longer able to defend themselves due to advanced age

My first point is this - those who have held high office in their lifetime are subject to historical analysis and the more influential they have been in their lifetime the more intense the analysis is likely to be

Thus a predecessor of Ted Heath's in the office of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom William Lamb (2nd Viscount Melbourne for Melbourne in Derbyshire) was (in)famous for taking a birch to the naked bottoms of young girls over whom he had gained power by making them his wards - what do you care about this? The girls on the receiving end of his whippings came forward in later life, and boys in Ted Heath's life have come forward in a similar manner. You can't change this and the only difference in these two circumstances is 200 years separate them

(2) The reality is that (primarily but not exclusively Catholic) Clergy have been accused of sexual abuse of minors years after the event and when they were no longer in a position to defend themselves. And these cases have been investigated, and often received widespread media exposure and this has been happening for years to the point where Catholic Priest and child abuser have become synonymous in some circles. You cannot deny this

" I am against all forms of abuse and especially child abuse. Fact " I'd be surprised if you were not, on this matter whatever our other differences we would be in 100% agreement

Thus my asking for your comment on the fact the Australian Police not only administered a site that allowed sickos to post the most horrendous images of children being abused but posted their own images of child abuse to maintain credibility for that site among its clientele. And that disturbs me greatly regardless of the motivation for doing so being worthwhile

Anonymous said...

Veteran,,,hate to disturb Andre's cerebral argument and history lesson but my point was that Jimmy Saville was long buried before they investigated him and look where it led to..Rolf Harris and several other high profile personalities.

The moment you try shutting down an inquiry about senior politicians the establishment leaves its self open to the charge of interference.....it has to run it's course.

Andrei......there was not an officer of the palace guard that went unmolested by Katherine the Great, any dissent and he would find himself on Polish Border....abuse of power?

Lord Egbut

gravedodger said...

Meanwhile on another planet a Holywood lister is fired by his brother following revellations of improper use of power and position over women.

Because he has been a vocal financial contributor to the Democrats publicity has been muted.

Very much alive and giving continued grief to his many victims as it unfolds.

I agree Vet police should leave such information to historians where it will never be "settled".

Just as with Saville there were many opportunities to have investigated then, certianly not now. Perhaps more effort in the allegations of degrading activity currently being perpetrated by culture and religious protection than the allegations against a dead man denied any chance to answer.