Tuesday, March 13, 2018

What will Winston do?

Britain has called on New Zealand to take reprisals against Russia if Russia does not provide a credible reply to the nerve gas attempted assassinations.

What will Russia's chief advocate and cheerleader, Winston Peters, do?  After all, he's our foreign minister.

That will be almost as interesting as watching what will happen when Labour MPs are investigated by police for obstructing the course of justice over the summer camp sexual attacks.

On that matter, Labour's rape culture needs addressing badly.


Andrei said...

Theresa May has lost the plot - what does she want, to start WW3

The nerve agent they say was used was manufactured in the Soviet Union in the 1970s in Uzbekistan in fact

And the USA was given access to the plant where it was produced in the 1990s to "decommision and decontaminate" it

Although Russia is the successor state of the Soviet Union there are 14 othe post Soviet Republics all of which have/had stockpiles of Soviet era weapons

To blindly point the finger at Russia for this is foolishness bordering on stupidity

Johno said...

Journalists, dissidents and former spies from Russia have been getting bumped off for years. Russia has a ton of form for this and is by far the most obvious culprit.

Andrei said...

The country with the form for extra judicial murder on foreign soil is the USA Jonno

This particular crime against this particular individual in this particular way, at this particular time makes no sense whatsoever

Psycho Milt said...

That will be almost as interesting as watching what will happen when Labour MPs are investigated by police for obstructing the course of justice over the summer camp sexual attacks.

Or, indeed, almost as interesting as watching what will happen when National MPs are investigated by police for their involvement in the Sergei Skripal poisoning. Mind you, I wouldn't bet money on either investigation actually taking place.

On that matter, Labour's rape culture needs addressing badly.

Almost worse than right-wingers' constant ridiculing of people who take rape culture seriously is their co-opting the term for cheap party-political propaganda stunts. Just for the record, actual rape culture is when, for example, Young Nationals members discuss getting women drunk so they can fuck them, or when the Prime Minister of New Zealand's response to the RoastBusters case is "These young guys should just grow up."

Nick K said...

Come on Milt, it's not OK when anyone does it, whether it's National or Labour. It's potentially much worse for Labour because it's been them with the #rapeculture, #MeToo memes everywhere. If you virtue signal like they have been, you had better be a paragon of virtue.

Psycho Milt said...

And there we are again - recognising this stuff for what it is and rejecting it is "virtue signalling." It sounds like in this case the Labour Party people present did the right things: got the perp away from potential victims, checked they were OK, offered support, let the victims make the decisions about who should be informed. Authoritarians on the right and in the media will likely continue giving them a roasting for not declaring themselves the bosses of the victims and deciding who was to be informed about what, but fuck them.

Anonymous said...

OK, tolerate it. The party did the right things, victims made the decisions about who to inform. Stop your scolding. Everyone's OK.

Maybe not.

I've got a dollar that says this was not the first instance with the 'perp' and it won't be the last. Four grabs in one night? This drongo hit the ground running. There'll be other group gatherings with nubiles and grog he can attend besides Labour camps.


Anonymous said...

Andrei.......your post is conspicuous by it's lack of links. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it ain't a Platypus.

Novichok (the nerve agent) became famous in the Nineties, when a Soviet scientist called Vil Mirzayanov revealed that the country had secretly developed the powerful nerve gas, which was far more potent than anything in the US. Though the Soviet Union had been developing it for some time, it didn’t become known for as long as a decade after it was actually available, because it had been kept entirely secret.

You have no understanding of what is acceptable in a democracy....Give up, you are pushing shit uphill.

Lord Egbut

Andrei said...

Actually Egbut in a democracy people are assumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law where the evidence against them is presented in public

The people who talk about rape culture have often sought to have this standard changed for sexual crimes inverting it to guilty until proven innocent

For example Rustam Makhmudov was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Anna Politkovskaya after a trial in open court in Moscow where the evidence was put forward before the press, including foreign press and public

His Uncle also got life and two of his brothers Dzhabrail and Ibragim Makhmudov got 12 years for their part in the killing.

And yet despite this you will still probably believe Putin dunnit because that is what you want to believe

It is called "cognitive dissonance" when the facts are at variance with your deep held beliefs

Poor old Milt is exhibiting it strongly over this Young Labour sexual assault thing

Anonymous said...

Russian troops in Ukraine....................denied
Russian missile brings down airliner.........denied
Russian state sponsored athletic doping......denied
Russian cyber attacks on Estonia.............denied
Russian RT, Sputnik work with Fancy Bears....denied
Russian involvement with death of Litvenenko.denied
Russian ground forces in Syria...............denied
Russian involvement in Clinton email hack....denied
Russian meddling in the US elections.........denied
Russian presence on NZ blogs peddling influence ............try denying that one.

Lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

Phsyco.....I take issue with you comparing the "Roastbusters" with this Labour chap.
The Roastbusters come from good homes with parents who mix in the right circles and these young chaps are our future leaders whereas the Labour scum is only going to grow up to be a dole cheat and wife beater.

Veteran.....You went to great lengths to point out that the PM was a young socialist. Wasn't it you who said that if you were not a socialist at 20 then you had no heart. It seems now that she has brains as well, a little bit politically naive perhaps but I hope she stays that way. The last thing NZ needs is another cynical attack dog on the benches.

Lord Egbut of Moscow (I trust Johnno luvs me now)

Breaking:.......The Mango has just sacked his secretary of State Tillerson. I can see the cracks from here

Anonymous said...

Tillerson supported the British PM in her stinging attack on Putin's administration with a few robust comments of his own........two hours later he was shown the door.

Any doubters still out there?

Lord Egbut

Psycho Milt said...

OK, tolerate it.

That's certainly the right-wing approach. There is no such thing as rape culture unless it offers an opportunity for propaganda shots at left-wing political parties.

If you really do believe it shouldn't be tolerated, start responding to people who tell you Trump's victims were asking for it, or that sexual assaults and rapes are caused by alcohol, or by women being dressed in a way you don't like or being on their own. That is "not tolerating" it. Better still, start looking at how the justice system could be configured so that 16-year-old-girls don't already know better at that age than to report a rape or sexual assault to the Police.

Psycho Milt said...

For example Rustam Makhmudov was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Anna Politkovskaya after a trial in open court in Moscow...

I'm sure the people prosecuted had deeply personal reasons for killing Politkovskaya and no other parties were involved. The astonishing death rate in mysterious circumstances of Putin's enemies is thus shown to be mere coincidence, nothing more. Hooray! Long live the new Tsar!

Gerald said...

"Better still, start looking at how the justice system could be configured so that 16-year-old-girls don't already know better at that age than to report a rape or sexual assault to the Police."

Estimated that only nine percent of cases are reported to the police. Appears these 16 year olds were savy enough to realise that going dowm that path would be further hell.

Anonymous said...

Funny that Phsyco......an ex Director of Aeroflot with close ties to Beresovsky an anti Putin Critic who "hanged himself" in the bathroom of his multi million pound mansion has just been found dead in London.....this is happening on an industrial scale now.

I think things are coming to a head. I note that Trump needs "facts" before condemning, not a good sign. The Chimps tea party continues without adult supervision now.

Lord Egbut

Andrei said...

There is an astonishing death rate among people associated with the Clintons too Milt

Including of course the administrator of the DNC server supposedly hacked by the Russians found dead in a Washington Street with two bullets in the back

Very strange

Here is the thing I cannot get my head around - why would Russia attempt to murder this guy now in a manner guaranteed to gain maximium public attention and evoke revulsion?

The man himself is ancient history his value to Western intelligence long since spent

It makes no sense whatsoever!!! It is cartoonish in fact, why hand a propaganda coup to those who hate Russia over a washed up spy who was arrested over a decade ago?

Johno said...

You expect things to make sense (to you)??? How strange.

Putin's an untouchable god in his own country who can do whatever he wants and show the rest of the world his middle finger. He's been doing it for years, whether its Syria, Crimea or various individual enemies.
He has form, means and opportunity. As to motive? Looks like he just likes to settle his grudges.

Anonymous said...

It makes a lot of sense when you continue to portray yourself as a "strongman" and you are going into an election with an old slogan of death to those who betray us. Putin has identified the weaknesses of western democracy and eliminated them in his own country with 50 laws eroding parliaments powers. All Russian parliamentarians are in thrall to him one way or another.

Trump is a handy idiot who absorbs the worlds media and takes the spotlight off Russia.

There is nothing astonishing about being shot in a dodgy area of a US city particularly when it was random choice of route. Give up Andrei Putin is an dangerous A grade arsehole. Butt out and get your own country sorted before trying to fuck with ours.

Lord Egbut

Andrei said...

No Jonno I naively expect adults to have analytical abilities that exceed those of six year olds watching Roadrunner cartoons

You do realize Jonno that the USA, France and Great Britain are acting in Syria in violation of international law? And that Russia is acting in Syria in accordance with it?

And as for Crimea that has been Russian for centuries - I know it id fucking annoying that syphilitic NATO sailors are not permitted to spread their foul diseases to the Christian Russian women who live there and that Homosexual perverts are not permitted to parade their deviancy in front of Orthodox Churches in Simferopol

Russia has greater claim to Crimea than the USA has to Texas which they annexed from Mexico of course

But in the 21st century we let the people who live in regions decide and the residents of Texas for the most part want to be part of the USA and the residents of Crimea overwhelmingly want to be part of Russia

Suck on it

Anonymous said...

Same old, same old ..bugger off Andrei, your perverted ultra right views are as disgusting as your President.

Lord Egbut

George said...

Andrei is anything but right , of the right or from the right and as usual is excusing Russia's actions.
This time against against dissidents in Britain.
Which constitutes an attack on the sovereign nation

The Veteran said...

PM ... get with it old son .... the police are now involved.

Gerald said...

For Andrei

Nobody Buys Pi in Bunbury said...

YAY! Police involved, now we can get rid of taxerella or whatever name we want to call her today.

Yes, the police are involved as a result of a complaint by one of the alleged victims, as is her right. I do wonder, though, if it will ,make it to court and if so, what pressure the young lady will have to endure under the ridiculous way sexual assault accusers are treated in courts.

What were you wearing?

Had you been drinking?

Are you a virgin? Have you had sex anytime in the last twelve months?

Did you speak to the accused at any time prior to the alleged attack?

And on and on it will go until the poor accuser is worn down. And you wonder why women are reluctant to lay complaints.

Until those of you with power and connections speak out about this shameful treatment and use your power and connections to enforce change then it is you who are perpetuating rape culture. The laws have been made by rapey old white men and ignore the norms of admissible evidence simply to protect rapey old white men and their rapey progeny.

The Veteran said...

Nobody Buys Pi in Bunbury ... or what pressure the young lady will endure to drop her complaint ... for the greater good of the Party etc.

Nobody Buys Pi in Bunbury said...

And your proof of this "pressure"? Nah, you just make stuff up.

On the other hand, the trauma that accusers face in court is very real. It has been acknowledged as the major reason so few rape complaints ever make it to trial. Victim blaming. Slut shaming. And you're OK with that I take it.

Andrei said...

" Same old, same old ..bugger off Andrei, your perverted ultra right views are as disgusting as your President."

Well that shows what you are Egnut - a sad little closed minded individual incapable of independant thought and incapable of conducting an adult discussion based on the merits of the case and hard evidence.

Fact: The Plant where the alleged compound was produced has been in American hands for 20 years

Fact: Stockpiles of these compounds were held in ex Soviet Republics some of which are now even members of NATO

Fact: The formulas for these compounds were published in the West in the mid 1990s by chemists who worked on them and moved to the USA after the fall of the Soviet Union

Russia as nothing to gain by pulling off this stunt as anyone with analytical skills surpassing those of a dead mouse should grasp (which clearly doesn't include you Egnut)

The Veteran said...

NBPIB ... I can acknowledge that defence lawyers go hard at it trying to find chinks in the complainants story as do prosecution lawyers faced with defence witnesses. Are you saying they shouldn't? That aside and yes, testifying in court is often a traumatic experience. There are mechanisms in place to help mitigate that.

I do have some knowledge of peer pressure. I can readily imagine that some of the victims peers within the Labour Party might exert subtle pressure to pull back from his/her allegations ... for the greater good (of the Party). Sheesh, it started with Kirkton trying to pretend the incident never happened and taking 28 days to offer the victims support. Victim led response ... poppycock. It was all about c o v e r u p.

Johno said...

Oh dear, Andrei's losing it...

Meanwhile, another Russian enemy of Putin turns up dead in London.

Putin's sending messages. Oh, and making veiled nuclear threats too. Class.

Nobody Buys Pi in Bunbury said...

veteran, if the defence is "going hard" at the evidence, I have no problem.

But what a complainant was wearing, their prior sexual history, their consumption of alcohol, is not part of the evidence, it is victim blaming and shaming.

If you think what a woman was wearing when she was raped is relevant then you are no better than the Taliban.

Andrei said...

"If you think what a woman was wearing when she was raped is relevant then you are no better than the Taliban."

No Bunbury - context is important in judging the merits of rape claims and the fundamental principal remains " Innocent until proven Guilty"

One of the odd things in these days of female empowerment is that an incredibly popular book, written by a female and popular primarily with female readers is " Fifty Shades of Grey" which is about a young woman being sexually dominated and physically beaten by a man

Go figure?

Andrei said...

I'm not loosing it Jonno - I am merely pointing out facts that contradict the prevailing narrative against Russia

The USA had plans for Syria, Russia thwarted them and continues to do so

America is pissed - the schoolyard bully is being stood up to

The bullys hangers on, vapid creatures like Theresa May, insignificant in their own right suck up to the bully

David said...

Andrei, your adherence to a religion that demeans women renders most of what you have to say on the topic as useless as a cup of cold sick.

Why does "innocent until proven guilty" apply to the accused who is never questioned about what he was wearing, his prior sexual history, his consumption of alcohol (unless as an attempt to diminish responsibility)?

A woman's clothing, her prior sexual history, are NOT relevant. But your religion and Islam share a common hatred of women's sexuality.

I have not read "Fifty Shades ...", but from my understanding, it is fiction, not real life, but then, you believe so many other fictitious things I can understand you seeing that book as a sex manual, not entertainment. Furthermore, even though it IS fiction, the acticvities described are consensual.

Andrei said...

David I am an adherent of a Faith that puts women on a pedestal

Books like fifty shades of Grey appall me - I am commenting on its popularity among woman readers as erotica that is all. It tells you someting about what turns some women on

Its what I told my daughters "You want to be treated like a princess, dress like a princess behave like a princess, you want to be treated like a whore dress like one, behave like one"

It is the same in all walks of life for everybody - you want a Bank loan dress in a business suit white shirt and tie not in your gardening clothes when you meet the Bank

Personally I find women in bikinis unattractive, I am repelled by the modern look of tattooed harridans with multiple peircings - its ugly.

The only woman worth having is one who has to be wooed and won IMHO

David said...

David I am an adherent of a Faith that puts women on a pedestal

But do the women want to be on a pedestal? Why won't your church accept them as priests? Why must they cover their hair? Why must they sit apart from the men? In that, your church is exactly the same as The islamic mosque and the taliban.

And your attitude carries over in to your disdain for your daughters. You don't think that they should aspire to fulfilling careers as perhaps Engineers, Doctors,
lawyers; they should just be the Princess waiting for a man to rescue them.

It tells you someting about what turns some women on

Some women are turned on by rape fantasies and like to act it out, but again, that is with their consent. It does not mean all women desire to be raped. Consent, Andrei. maybe you should look it up sometime.

Personally I find women in bikinis unattractive, I am repelled by the modern look of tattooed harridans with multiple peircings - its ugly.

Your opinion, fine, no one is going to make you marry a tattooed, pierced bikini wearing independent woman. The choice of the word "harridan" says a lot more about you than it does about those women. It speaks to the misogyny that permeates your life and your religion.

Psycho Milt said...

But do the women want to be on a pedestal?

I think he meant "puts women in a box," one marked either "Wife and mother" or "Whore," depending.

Andrei said...

You are on this planet for less than a century, a lot less in some cases Milt

When your time comes you might be surrounded by those you love

Or maybe nobody even notices you're gone

David said...

Andrei, I am sure that the intelligent, the free thinkers, the acceptors of scientific knowledge, the pursuers of truth, will all have noticed the sad passing of Stephen Hawking.

Or were just using yet another unfortunate woman in your campaign to denigrate your opponents?

I'll lay London to a brick it is the latter.

Anonymous said...

Fact....Skripal was not a rich man and lived in modest house, had no links with trade, mafia or money laundering organisations. He was currently "lecturing" on espionage activities at a British institution. M16 and the CIA have a very close relationship so if the Americans wanted to pop him on plane at a private airport he would have gone a long time ago.

The British could have removed him quietly and without fuss at anytime, but why should they. So Andrei is suggesting that a nerve agent that only the Russians hold is used to murder a man and his daughter in full knowledge of the huge public risk just to fuck up the world cup...jeez give me a break.

Why should Putin use such a method that would be easily traced back to Russia? He needs to be seen as the underdog fighting for Russia's interest against a hostile world.....it's the "only I can save you" approach that has worked well for dictators like Idi Amin etc. The more Russia is isolated internationality the more secure his position becomes.

lord Egbut

Anonymous said...

Novichok agents have never been used on the battlefield, but have been linked to several poisoning incidents.[24]

According to the Kommersant newspaper, a Novichok agent was used in 1995 to poison Russian banker Ivan Kivelidi, the head of the Russian Business Round Table, and Zara Ismailova, his secretary. Vladimir Khutsishvili, a former business partner of the banker, was subsequently found guilty of the killings. According to Moscow Prosecutor Yuri Syomin, a "talented scientist from a research institute" produced the deadly agent for Khutsishvili. The murder allegedly became "one of the first in the series of poisonings organized by Russia's security services", according to Yuri Felshtinsky and Vladimir Pribylovsky.
The Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs analyzed the substance and announced that it was a phosphorus-based nerve agent "whose formula was strictly classified". According to Nesterov, the administrative head of Shikhany, he did not know of "a single case of such poison being sold illegally" and noted that the poison is "is used by professional spies".

Andrei said...

What does a 25 year old murder case in Moscow have to do with anything Egbut

Aside: Khutsishvili is a Georgian name

Georgia of course is one of the ex Soviet Republics currently under NATOs Jackboot